DUST Search - Solution for the 4 Racial Rifles. (Balance)

Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:

Mordecai Sanguine wrote:

"Hey my weapons are op ! Can we buff the ENTIRE GAME instead of just nerfing 4 weapons ? (Rifles) "
Dude seriously.
With your simple quote you just prove than these weapons are OP.
BUT i think the others rifle are Op too or not working as intended.
SOOOOOO
Nerf the 4 Rifles (and SMG) BAM balanced Game. (Infantry)

The actual problem is that people defend their rifle by saying "Hey it's not op against this other rifle ! it's balanced"
WRONG.
These 4 rifles are ALL OP.
Yes they are balanced each others.
But they ****** up the whole game with this ridiculous TTK and make the game a bad copy of COD.
It even kill the "Fitting" of the game which is now just "DAMAAAAAGER".
These 4 rifles need Balance not just NEEERF or "we let this destroy the game because i make kill with it *Douchebag*"
It needs to be balanced.

Scrambler Rifle : Nerf the RoF (15% less RoF) and lower the Mag of the semi-auto Version to 25 => But give a small bonus to Headshot (5/10% more damage than now in Headshot) it will reward players that takes their time to make perfect charge shots and punish the "spam" players that hit their shoot button as fast as possible.
No need for other nerf this weapon already takes 11PG to fit STD and 20 at PRO that's a HEAVY cost when you fit your dropsuit.
As intended.
The Assault version is pretty balanced BUT it should heat up quickly and make it lose his mag when it Heat up. (Only the Assault Version)

Assault Rifle : Nerf the Effective Range to make it worse at range it's supposed to be the less effective rifle at mid/long range.
And Nerf the optimal range..
But give more RoF (50 RPM)
And Better accuracy when not aiming (Sorry for my bad english).
You think that's a buff ? Not really an Worse range make a weapon really weaker.
BAM awesome CQC rifle but not OP at range.
As intended.
I don't think the others version of the Assault rifle should exist they should be deleted (With SP and ISK refund)

Combat Rifle : Supposed to be an Mid range Weapon it's more an "I see you so you're dead BAM One shot bitchies"
First make the time between each burst higher. (At least Twice)
But make the burst shot 3 more bullet.
Then add more Recoil at the end of each burst.
It have 10% more damage on armor and 5% less on Shield Where is the logic here ????
It's more powerful than all other weapon by that fact......
Bring 0% on armor and 0% on shield. No advantage no drawbacks : Balanced.
It's minmatarr technology it's explain the low PG/CPU fitting.
But it should also cost less ISK : 25% less than now making it a cheap weapon easy to fit and average against everything.
Polyvalent Weapon.
As intended.
The Armor/Shield Balance already affect the Assault version just add some bigger Recoil.

Rail Rifle : Supposed to be an long range weapon it actually outclass the other rifle (So all the weapon) at mid range.
Higher the charge up time before start shooting. (0.5sec)
Make the bullets had trace like the sniper rifle : We could know from where we have been shot.
Higher the Recoil of the assault Version.
Higher the Damage of 1 for all version.

Here are your balanced weapons.
Don't think one of them rifles are not totally ****** up THEY ARE.
That's not a question "Are they ?" They are and her's the solution not just nerf or buff but Balance. Not to each others but each to ALL THE GAME.
Sorry for my bad english ask if you don't understand something i xcould maybe try to say it correctly (with other words)

Respectfully, no.

If everything is "OP" then nothing is. What if the buffer modules were buffed? Or perhaps an across the board 5% drop in damage for all rifles?

Reference the rail rifle... If you increase the spool time anymore it drops effectiveness dramatically even at range. Also, with your stated charge increase that would give it higher spool time than a rail turret - probably not a good idea.

You stated yourself that all weapons are now a viable, if that's the case, why not adjust a different aspect of the game? People focus on the weapons a lot but there are a lot of other things that can be done to work on the feel of the game...including addressing TTK.


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Mordecai Sanguine What The French 226	Posted - 2013.12.28 18:41:00 - [1] - Quote "Hey my weapons are op ! Can we buff the ENTIRE GAME instead of just nerfing 4 weapons ? (Rifles) " Dude seriously. With your simple quote you just prove than these weapons are OP. BUT i think the others rifle are Op too or not working as intended. SOOOOOO Nerf the 4 Rifles (and SMG) BAM balanced Game. (Infantry) The actual problem is that people defend their rifle by saying "Hey it's not op against this other rifle ! it's balanced" WRONG. These 4 rifles are ALL OP. Yes they are balanced each others. But they ****** up the whole game with this ridiculous TTK and make the game a bad copy of COD. It even kill the "Fitting" of the game which is now just "DAMAAAAAGER". These 4 rifles need Balance not just NEEERF or "we let this destroy the game because i make kill with it Douchebag" It needs to be balanced. Scrambler Rifle : Nerf the RoF (15% less RoF) and lower the Mag of the semi-auto Version to 25 => But give a small bonus to Headshot (5/10% more damage than now in Headshot) it will reward players that takes their time to make perfect charge shots and punish the "spam" players that hit their shoot button as fast as possible. No need for other nerf this weapon already takes 11PG to fit STD and 20 at PRO that's a HEAVY cost when you fit your dropsuit. As intended. The Assault version is pretty balanced BUT it should heat up quickly and make it lose his mag when it Heat up. (Only the Assault Version) Assault Rifle : Nerf the Effective Range to make it worse at range it's supposed to be the less effective rifle at mid/long range. And Nerf the optimal range.. But give more RoF (50 RPM) And Better accuracy when not aiming (Sorry for my bad english). You think that's a buff ? Not really an Worse range make a weapon really weaker. BAM awesome CQC rifle but not OP at range. As intended. I don't think the others version of the Assault rifle should exist they should be deleted (With SP and ISK refund) Combat Rifle : Supposed to be an Mid range Weapon it's more an "I see you so you're dead BAM One shot bitchies" First make the time between each burst higher. (At least Twice) But make the burst shot 3 more bullet. Then add more Recoil at the end of each burst. It have 10% more damage on armor and 5% less on Shield Where is the logic here ???? It's more powerful than all other weapon by that fact...... Bring 0% on armor and 0% on shield. No advantage no drawbacks : Balanced. It's minmatarr technology it's explain the low PG/CPU fitting. But it should also cost less ISK : 25% less than now making it a cheap weapon easy to fit and average against everything. Polyvalent Weapon. As intended. The Armor/Shield Balance already affect the Assault version just add some bigger Recoil. Rail Rifle : Supposed to be an long range weapon it actually outclass the other rifle (So all the weapon) at mid range. Higher the charge up time before start shooting. (0.5sec) Make the bullets had trace like the sniper rifle : We could know from where we have been shot. Higher the Recoil of the assault Version. Higher the Damage of 1 for all version. Here are your balanced weapons. Don't think one of them rifles are not totally ****** up THEY ARE. That's not a question "Are they ?" They are and her's the solution not just nerf or buff but Balance. Not to each others but each to ALL THE GAME. Sorry for my bad english ask if you don't understand something i xcould maybe try to say it correctly (with other words)
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 227	Posted - 2013.12.28 20:32:00 - [2] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Honestly, I don't like any of your suggestions. If the rifles are balanced against each other, why changing the base mechanics? If anything, lower the damage of... let's say 5% for all rifles? Because these weapon are not Op because of the Damage Output. It's like i was saying "Nerf the sniper rifle : 5% less reload time". It's useless. The Combat rifle with 30% less damage would still be unbalanced and NOT working as intended. We're not talking about "this more powerful blablabla we're talking about the core of the game the fact than 50% of this game is NOT working as intended and NOT working at all. Because these 4 weapons have just killed the game killed the tanking option. Killed the TTk and the fitting optimization which is now failed. And because now it's more COD514 than Dust 514. There's NOT 4 weapon in this game. Oh wait since they are so much OP YES there is only 4 weapon in this game. (Like the Mass Driver when it was hugely used or the Assault rifle in the Academy there's nothing else than them.) You must REALLY stop thinking than there's only 4 weapon you must stop thiking there's NOTHING ELSE than what you're using. That's because of people like that than Heavy/Scout are useless and the Core mecanics are ****** up.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 227	Posted - 2013.12.28 20:35:00 - [3] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I think the ScR should be worse at hip fire. Otherwise, good balance. Yes maybe. Wanted to add it but it would make too much "nerf" for too less "rebalance" Anyway will maybe add it.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 227	Posted - 2013.12.28 20:45:00 - [4] - Quote For all of you i got the FINAL feedback. I finally understand what's your problem now. Okay let's try : For you 50% more damage Less 1000% damage receive. You can illimity sprint and exceptionnaly this is ONLY FOR YOU. Yep that's what you want be an Half-god you want everything to be nerf EXEPT what your using. And then we nerf what you're using because that's op and then you cry yes you cry because you discover than you're NOT good you're NOT skilled. That's exactly your opinion on this thread i'm sure of it you see that one of these 4 weapons are your main weapon so.....you're crying again and again to keep it as powerful than before.... Or if you're......well intelligent giving some crappy ideas or nerf so useless than your weapons will still be beast. Too Bad ^^ even before you just THINK or SEE this thread i already knew you were going to cry for defending your OP weapon to the end. My proposition are NOT hasardous ideas here and/or there. These Modification don't EVEN bring these weapon at the same level than the others. They keep these weapon far higher than the others.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 227	Posted - 2013.12.28 20:54:00 - [5] - Quote Corporal Jones wrote: Bringing all "X Rifle" damage down by 5% would bring more balance: it would mean that all other weapons would be viable within their niche. The reason the Rifles are so common is because they are so versatile where the speciality weapons (HMG, Mass Driver, Laser Rifle, etc) are all very powerful in their niche but less powerful outside it (less so with the poor Laser Rifle...) Bringing Rifle damage down by a small amount would increase generic Time-To-Kill and make the more speciality weapons shine when put to use properly while the Rifles would still be very versatile. Nope already maded ALL the calculs. To make the rifles lower than the niche weapon (Laser/Forge/Mass driver etcetc....). Rifles would need AT LEAST 25% less damage. Without Damager and Proficiency. 5% less damage ? LOL. The TTK is still Low and that's a mid damager. 50000 SP and that's like anything happen. That's would make the game even more difficult for new player and don't change ANYTHING for the other. 5% of this damage will still make these weapon TOTALLY destroying the TTK of the game. Remove Damager/Proficiency and then nerf 25% the damage MAYBE that would create balance. But actually it don't. 5% is nothing. 2 proficiency or a damager and it change nothing. Like i said damage is not the problem the problem is how these weapon is used and their core mecanics.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 227	Posted - 2013.12.28 21:15:00 - [6] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: "Hey my weapons are op ! Can we buff the ENTIRE GAME instead of just nerfing 4 weapons ? (Rifles) " Dude seriously. With your simple quote you just prove than these weapons are OP. BUT i think the others rifle are Op too or not working as intended. SOOOOOO Nerf the 4 Rifles (and SMG) BAM balanced Game. (Infantry) The actual problem is that people defend their rifle by saying "Hey it's not op against this other rifle ! it's balanced" WRONG. These 4 rifles are ALL OP. Yes they are balanced each others. But they ****** up the whole game with this ridiculous TTK and make the game a bad copy of COD. It even kill the "Fitting" of the game which is now just "DAMAAAAAGER". These 4 rifles need Balance not just NEEERF or "we let this destroy the game because i make kill with it Douchebag" It needs to be balanced. Scrambler Rifle : Nerf the RoF (15% less RoF) and lower the Mag of the semi-auto Version to 25 => But give a small bonus to Headshot (5/10% more damage than now in Headshot) it will reward players that takes their time to make perfect charge shots and punish the "spam" players that hit their shoot button as fast as possible. No need for other nerf this weapon already takes 11PG to fit STD and 20 at PRO that's a HEAVY cost when you fit your dropsuit. As intended. The Assault version is pretty balanced BUT it should heat up quickly and make it lose his mag when it Heat up. (Only the Assault Version) Assault Rifle : Nerf the Effective Range to make it worse at range it's supposed to be the less effective rifle at mid/long range. And Nerf the optimal range.. But give more RoF (50 RPM) And Better accuracy when not aiming (Sorry for my bad english). You think that's a buff ? Not really an Worse range make a weapon really weaker. BAM awesome CQC rifle but not OP at range. As intended. I don't think the others version of the Assault rifle should exist they should be deleted (With SP and ISK refund) Combat Rifle : Supposed to be an Mid range Weapon it's more an "I see you so you're dead BAM One shot bitchies" First make the time between each burst higher. (At least Twice) But make the burst shot 3 more bullet. Then add more Recoil at the end of each burst. It have 10% more damage on armor and 5% less on Shield Where is the logic here ???? It's more powerful than all other weapon by that fact...... Bring 0% on armor and 0% on shield. No advantage no drawbacks : Balanced. It's minmatarr technology it's explain the low PG/CPU fitting. But it should also cost less ISK : 25% less than now making it a cheap weapon easy to fit and average against everything. Polyvalent Weapon. As intended. The Armor/Shield Balance already affect the Assault version just add some bigger Recoil. Rail Rifle : Supposed to be an long range weapon it actually outclass the other rifle (So all the weapon) at mid range. Higher the charge up time before start shooting. (0.5sec) Make the bullets had trace like the sniper rifle : We could know from where we have been shot. Higher the Recoil of the assault Version. Higher the Damage of 1 for all version. Here are your balanced weapons. Don't think one of them rifles are not totally ****** up THEY ARE. That's not a question "Are they ?" They are and her's the solution not just nerf or buff but Balance. Not to each others but each to ALL THE GAME. Sorry for my bad english ask if you don't understand something i xcould maybe try to say it correctly (with other words) Respectfully, no. If everything is "OP" then nothing is. What if the buffer modules were buffed? Or perhaps an across the board 5% drop in damage for all rifles? Reference the rail rifle... If you increase the spool time anymore it drops effectiveness dramatically even at range. Also, with your stated charge increase that would give it higher spool time than a rail turret - probably not a good idea. You stated yourself that all weapons are now a viable, if that's the case, why not adjust a different aspect of the game? People focus on the weapons a lot but there are a lot of other things that can be done to work on the feel of the game...including addressing TTK. And this is when 4 weapons become EVERYTHING than we can say they are totally broken. And like i said why we should buff ALL THE GAME making years of unbalance (because no we can't buff everything at th same time) for just 4 little weapons ? seriously ? And like i already said under 25% less damage these weapons still beat the niche weapons. And 5% is NOTHING one proficiency and that's laomost forgotten. Hmmm for the Rail rifle well maybe 0.5 is too high but 0.2 is too low that's sure. Yes you're right but with the evolution of the game Hit detection will be better Update by update. The stats of the AR and SCR was made by the OLD hit detection which was balanced. Now these stats have become obsolete. And the CR and RR have been made to be balanced with the others rifle. You see the problem ? Adding more ehp to everyone ? Like i said there's NOT onle these 4 weapons it will make the others weapon still under these rifle even make them useless.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 227	Posted - 2013.12.28 21:17:00 - [7] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: No they are balanced stop it scrub You're the only scrub here if you're defending these obviously broken rifles. The rifles aren't broken, I just think that they aren't different enough from each other There's NOT ONLY these 4 weapons !!!!!!!!! We are not talking about balancing these rifles each others we are talking about balancing these 4 rifles WITH THE GAME.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 227	Posted - 2013.12.28 21:27:00 - [8] - Quote Quote: this is a rifle fighting game with all the bells and whistles. Im sorry you like bells and whistles more than learning to fight with rifles in a rifle fightig game. Why nerf any rifle? So now instead of dieing all the time to duvolles I die from rails and crs. So what. How can you say nerf rifles when tanks are deciding games now? Do you even play? And an another who think there's ONLY rifles in this game. It shows totally the problem. The rifles has become SO POWERFUL. Than everybody has forgto there's something else than these. Even all the Heavy suits i play against are using these rifles. Tanks ? Yes we already know they have some....problem. Anyway we are all according to the fact than tanks are not balanced here i'm just saying and give a solution about rifles. In fact the main problem when fighting a tank is the infantry next to him even more when they are holdind rifles. Rifles that makes you almost the same damage than the tanks......... What the point about arguing about problem everybody has admit it ? (tanks) The main problem here is than the Rifles are totally broken but some players are too blind by their shiny OP weapons to see it.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 228	Posted - 2013.12.28 21:37:00 - [9] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: This is funny because I almost had the exact thing I was going to post today, I was going to make my own thread but might as well bump yours. The main thing is that the weapon ranges niches need to be reinforced a little bit more Rail Rifle The rail rifle is easy considering it has a spool up time to play with, We could theoretically give it a spool up time to some number and increase its range by some number, and you'd reinforced its range and increased its cqc weakness. An example number to throw in there would be a spool up time of .75-1.0, this is plasma cannon realm, which sucks but with an increase in optimal and effective by 30 M, that really gives you about 150 effective to play and since the damage curve is negatively skewed it means that its quite effective at those ranges. Scrambler Rifle The ScR should have a standard distribution curve like the LR but obviously more plateau than the LR, and have that high damage range be in between the CR and RR, (which with the suggested RR range buff it is currently). I also think the heat build up of charge shots and uncharged shots should be reversed, making it actually make it feel more like a tactical rifle. Combat Rifle Not nearly as knowledgeable on these to even make a somewhat decent suggestions like the others, but an small delay between shots should be adequate (enough aggravate turbo controllers), which would make aiming with the burst a little more important, but still able to spray an pray since its the suppose to have decent cqc. While I am open to your thoughts on all I am especially interested in your thoughts on the CR Assault Rifle I just think it needs greater bullet spread, and that's it. This makes tracking much easier in cqc and screws you at range. I don't understand the desire to increase the spool time for the RR. I use it exclusively and the current .25 sec spool time is quite significant; that's a more significant nerf than any of the other suggestions I've seen. At close quarters two equally skilled shooters, one with RR and one with AR...the AR has a noticeable advantage with first shot on target, rate of fire, ability to engage multiple targets or use bursts. Just so folks don't think I'm simply trying to defend my chosen weapon I'm not a fan of changing really any of them at this point. My understanding is that all rifles should be at least functional in all situations BUT optimized for their niche. I think all the rifles are pretty much spot on with this at the moment in that regard. You could probably tweak all the weapons in some way but creates other second and third order issues that we might not even foresee right now. I wouldn't attempt to tweak any of the weapons at the moment. So many people were trying out the shiny new rifles for the last few weeks I might be giving folks a skewed perception. I've been seeing a lot more Duvolles and GEKs on the field again, let's give it time to see how things work out. Oh wait a second !! I'm okay with you on some point. But i'm NOT giving my impression only by what is shooting on me. My Alt account is an Commando with 9 Million SP. Before speaking about these rifle i got level 5 with these 4 rifles. My perception is not maded by my ennemies only but because i'm playing with them. Well the AR would maybe win in CQC bacause....it's the AR niche maybe huh ? 0.25 is not really high and not even noticable when i'm using it. Anyway yes maybe 0.5sec of spool is too high i'm okay with that but 0.25 is....too little 0.30 would be better then you don't think ?
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 228	Posted - 2013.12.28 21:40:00 - [10] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: And because now it's more COD514 than Dust 514. 90% of the forums whined for a year that they want a COD clone and CCP delivered. Now everybody wants Dust to be different. Let me just shake my head and drown in the sea of sarcasm and irony. Dunno that sorry. Sorry but COD is like....One of the worst example of FPS these 5 last years ??? (Yes COD4 was cool) When you play an RPG/FPS you don't want an FPS you want a REAL mix between FPS/RPG.

Mordecai Sanguine What The French 228	Posted - 2013.12.28 21:41:00 - [11] - Quote Th3rdSun wrote: Remove damage mods.Problem solved. Yes i always thinks that in fact. (And add some damage for assaults suits like 2% per level). But even without damage mods these rifle TOTALLY outperforms the others weapons don't you think ? It will rule the problem of TTK. But not of unbalance. Anyway good idea. Mods about accuracy / recoil / spread / range / ammo / mag Okay but it should not have damage mods.....Or with penality (less range or lower RoF)